There Is Only One American Flag!

[rachelvarga]

This is the oath one takes when you become a citizen. It is one that we are all supposed to follow. Just because you were born here and didn't have to recite it does not exempt you. It was implied at your birth. It was the part of the social contract you were born into.


“I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.”


This saddens me. How could you remove the flag and replace it with something else?
https://twitter.com/P0kes/status/126723 ... 36/photo/1


There is something so wrong with the American flag with a blue line in it. Wtf did she just say? How dare she say that the Police don't matter. How dare she insult us. No, HOW DARE YOU take the flag that represents ALL OF US and over 1 million people that died for it and co-opt it for your own use. There is absolutely no way it can be justified because there is no justice that is above the justice that we should all receive. No one goes to war for a blue flag. No one died in WWI, WWWII, Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, Afghanistan, Iraq, and all other wars in the name of America for that fake flag. If you were military and are now law enforcement you should not fly that flag above the one you pledged your loyalty to. You have to have the fortitude to stand up and say it's wrong and not put it on your car or uniform. If you are willing to die for the American flag and defend it then you need to defend it also.


4 U.S. Code § 8.Respect for flag


(g)The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.


The blue line flag is not the American flag and it should be illegal for anyone to do this, I don't care who it is. If you want a symbol of solidarity then create something original.

[rachelvarga]

Oh, and anyone who does not want to party with me because I defend the flag is fine. I wouldn't want to party with someone like that anyway. There are ideals that mean more to me than money every will.

[SixT9er]

I agree 100%!
I support law enforcement but they should not be putting their flag above the flag of the US.
They are supposed to protect the US & by extension the flag.
Very disrespectful of these officers

[Florida Couple]

This post made me smile.  Someone who gets it 

[rachelvarga]

I hate when people say I don't support law enforcement. I do support them just not blindly.

[Nelspot]

Rachel:  When you run for office, let me know.  I feel a campaign contribution coming on!

Seriously, you hit it on the nose.  I've lived outside the US, and for all the problems and criticism the US faces, I'd much rather live here than anywhere else on earth. 

My father served in the Occupation Forces in Japan, and he told me that he's never seen anything prettier than the US flag.  I never disagreed with him, but the older I get, the better looking it gets.

Finally, you may want to read this.  What you had said earlier made me think of this, a recording that played popularly around the country at the beginning of the 1970s, which I think is referenced in this article. 

https://www.americanrhetoric.com/speech ... ricans.htm

[sgtaliin9150]

4 U.S. Code § 8.Respect for flag


(g)The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.


The blue line flag is not the American flag and it should be illegal for anyone to do this, I don't care who it is. If you want a symbol of solidarity then create something original.

It's very sad to see the flag disrespected. Makes me very angry. Especially having served and been deployed. The American Flag patches on my bdu always filled me with pride to look at.

These people's willful ignorance is appalling. Ignorance is not a defence, and ignorant people do stupid things.

[Dirk Diggler]

I believe there have actually been around 27 versions of the american flag and the current once since 1959. While you are correct about the U.S Code, you seem to have missed the fact that in 1990 the Supreme Court invalidated that federal law as violating free speech under the First Amendment. Therefore while you certainly can dislike or disagree with the raising or use of that flag, if you hold your oath dear you would then support it as a matter of constitutional freedom.

[rachelvarga]

I believe there have actually been around 27 versions of the american flag and the current once since 1959. While you are correct about the U.S Code, you seem to have missed the fact that in 1990 the Supreme Court invalidated that federal law as violating free speech under the First Amendment. Therefore while you certainly can dislike or disagree with the raising or use of that flag, if you hold your oath dear you would then support it as a matter of constitutional freedom.

I did not miss that fact at all. I believe that law should stand.

What you are wrong about is that the blue line flag is not a flag of the United States of America. My oath is to the United States. My oath is NOT to anything else. I'm not going to support every flag because it is a constitutional freedom. If I supported everything because it was a constitutional freedom then I would not be able to think for myself.

[rachelvarga]

Lol I made this post and now I got a bunch of signups all from the .ru domain.

[SixT9er]

Lol I made this post and now I got a bunch of signups all from the .ru domain.

The Russians are coming, the Russians are coming! ???

[Dirk Diggler]

I did not miss that fact at all. I believe that law should stand.

What you are wrong about is that the blue line flag is not a flag of the United States of America. My oath is to the United States. My oath is NOT to anything else. I'm not going to support every flag because it is a constitutional freedom. If I supported everything because it was a constitutional freedom then I would not be able to think for myself.

Your response isn't logical. You can choose not to support the blue line flag yet at the same time support individual's right to fly it or display it. By your words you swore an oath to support and defend the constitution and that inherently includes all the freedoms that the constitution is comprised of. If you are just picking and choosing what you want to support in the constitution based on your opinion, then your opinion has nothing to do with the oath you swore or the constitution or law and has no relevance in the discussion.


I too swore an oath to defend the constitution and did so for many years. My personal beliefs oftentimes don't align with certain laws, speech, or even some religions but I wholeheartedly support and will continue to support the constitutional freedoms that allow our republic to survive and flourish.


The real problem nowadays is that generally speaking most people tend to respond and react with emotion rather than civil rational discourse. Of course politicians, media, pundits, and other agitators are well aware of that fact and leverage it all the time to their own gain and advantage.


Of all the things going on in this country right now I'm somewhat surprised that this is what is taken offense to and posted about, but I guess I should know better.

[rachelvarga]

Yeah my beliefs do not align with the view that you can deface the American flag for a specific segment of the population. I support the fact that it is a constitutional right but I don't like it. You can't make everything so neat and tidy when it comes to something as complex as the legal set of rules that American society is constructed under.

So if tomorrow, the Supreme Court rules that a person has the right to watch child porn all they want. Would you sit here and say that you would defend that person's right? Hard question isn't it?

Things just are not black and white like you are making them. There is a debate on whether or not the Constitution is a living document that should change as societal norms change or it should be strict to the letter as it was at the time of it's writing. I would say that Ginsburg would believe the first and Alito believed the second. I tend to believe it is somewhat a little bit of both. Ironically they were really close friends despite being politically opposite.

I don't see that happening with you and I. I guess I should have known better.

[rachelvarga]

This thread could have been a lot worse. At least this isn't another boring, "when will the brothels open so I can stop jerking off on my keyboard" post.

[rachelvarga]

I meant Scalia not Alito.

Rachel Varga
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[Dirk Diggler]

Yeah my beliefs do not align with the view that you can deface the American flag for a specific segment of the population. I support the fact that it is a constitutional right but I don't like it. You can't make everything so neat and tidy when it comes to something as complex as the legal set of rules that American society is constructed under.

So if tomorrow, the Supreme Court rules that a person has the right to watch child porn all they want. Would you sit here and say that you would defend that person's right? Hard question isn't it?

Things just are not black and white like you are making them. There is a debate on whether or not the Constitution is a living document that should change as societal norms change or it should be strict to the letter as it was at the time of it's writing. I would say that Ginsburg would believe the first and Alito believed the second. I tend to believe it is somewhat a little bit of both. Ironically they were really close friends despite being politically opposite.

I don't see that happening with you and I. I guess I should have known better.

I think things mostly are black and white if you don't over complicate it. For example I'm personally against kneeling during the national anthem yet I understand as an expression of free speech athletes and teams can choose to do that if their organization allows it. I also understand that I have the freedom of choice as a consumer and as such I choose to not watch or in any way support with my dollars or time sports organizations that allow political speech during their events.


It's all good though, I don't take things personally and there is nothing wrong with different viewpoints. I can be just as outspoken about my views as you can be so if you just want to have a place to rant while everyone nods their head up and down I'm sorry if I spoiled that for you.

[rachelvarga]

Why do you do that? You wrlte a perfectly good post and then at the end you take a slight dig at me. I was reading and agreeing and then it ends that way.

If you feel that this is only my place and everyone just agrees with me I will say no it is not. If people nod their head it doesn't mean they are sheep. Dirk, I never said I don't think you should have a point of view here. We were debating and it was something we may agree on or not. If I made you feel your opinion doesn't have a place here  I apologize for making you feel that way.

I speak English very well and think in English but some things are hard to find to describe what I mean and so maybe I come off as frustrated because I probably am. I think that this subject is complicated and I do get emotional about it because of my background. That doesn't give me a free pass.

The kneeling. I find this difficult. I can't kneel and if people think I am racist then they are ignorant. No one can convince me that it is not disrespectful but I understand that people believe differently. I am not indifferent to the plight of black people in this country. America may have flaws and things are wrong but it is the most free country. Freedom almost to a fault sometimes but if it weren't then it would be China. This argument would get me executed in Saudi Arabia or imprisoned. This forum could not even exist. So I understand that people can do what they want and say what they want. It just breaks my heart for people to take something like the flag and use it as a symbol for their cause. They don't get thar it makes them look as though they are more important and it bothers me.

Either way I respect your opinion even if we can't agree on this or any other topic.

Rachel Varga
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[Dirk Diggler]

You didn't make me feel that way at all Rachel and as I said I don't take things personally, I have thick skin. I very much respect and appreciate your opinion and perspectives as well.

[rachelvarga]

You didn't make me feel that way at all Rachel and as I said I don't take things personally, I have thick skin. I very much respect and appreciate your opinion and perspectives as well.

Cool. Everything is good.

At least it's more interesting than them fighting over the Mustang Kelly Fare. Same thing over and over and at this point it's not about the issues with some of those guys. They just like hating on each other. They need a woman to straighten them out but we all know what happens when you do that.

[rachelvarga]

Can we close this thread? It's depressing. I will leave it open if someone wants.