March for Our Lives

[Chicagobob]

In cities around the country next Saturday is the "March for Our Lives".[/size]
I have been asked to attend and I am truly honored! 
For info: #marchforourlives or #neveragain
It's time![/size]

[SixT9er]

Good luck with that


I can get behind some of their demands but some are just back to blaming the gun and not the individuals.


Yes gun violence needs to end especially in schools but if someone is crazy and wants to attack a school no amount of legislation is going to stop them. Crazy always finds a way

[Chicagobob]

Good luck with that


I can get behind some of their demands but some are just back to blaming the gun and not the individuals.


Yes gun violence needs to end especially in schools but if someone is crazy and wants to attack a school no amount of legislation is going to stop them. Crazy always finds a way

I understand what you're saying. Being a right-wing conservative and a gun owner myself, I had mixed feelings about this too until I understood there agenda. 


They are not trying to ban gun sales - they are trying to ban sales of war machines.  I do not need an AK-47 to defend myself in my own home. My little 38 Special can do the job. 

[FumbleNutts]

You know I've a ton of respect for you, and I admire anyone that stands up for what they believe in. Many of us have rose our right hands for that right. You and I live/are from some of the most dangerous areas of the country. No one is out there marching for the lost lives, and it's root problems. I've watched civility, the family unit, and respect for other's break down for years. I've watched the media (especially social) try to guide the way we think. Violence in the movies we watch, and the games we play. People that are hell bent on wreaking havoc will do so by any means possible. I happen to agree with you on the need for machine guns, but what's to prevent a deranged person from using something that causes even more destruction? We've got to start talking about why a person would pull the trigger.

[TC]

I understand what you're saying. Being a right-wing conservative and a gun owner myself, I had mixed feelings about this too until I understood there agenda. 


They are not trying to ban gun sales - they are trying to ban sales of war machines.  I do not need an AK-47 to defend myself in my own home. My little 38 Special can do the job.

I am with you CB. I think harm reduction measures like this will help limit albeit not stop shootings. Mass shooters are cowards, they don’t want to go to go somewhere sketchy or work hard to get a weapon.


I look at it like drunk driving laws. Some people are going to get in a car wasted no matter what. But a lot of people are going to Uber home who wouldn’t otherwise. Harm reduction works.

[raving loon]

Thanks but no thanks Bob. I understand they're angry and their need to march, but I think their anger is misplaced. I think they should be angry at the system that had many opportunities to stop this scumbag beforehand, but didn't. Matter of fact I may or may not be taking part in something that's the complete opposite of what they're doing, especially since I live in a state where they regularly shove barb wire where the sun don't shine for firearm owners already. My apologies Bob, but I know you have to do what you have to do just like I have to do what I have to do.

[Chicagobob]

I'm just sick of the campus OPS coming in to talk about active shooter drills. It's become a huge distraction to all educational institutions. My students don't even feel safe in their own classroom anymore.


Way beyond that, I have 4 grandkids in public schools in Florida - it could have been them. 


The invitation is still open to anyone that may be interested.  Saturday March 24th. 

[Mikey]

I'm with you ChicagoBob, I've got a 38 special and a shot gun, and it's all the "protection" I need. The thing is the NRA has its members convinced that if they ban one type of weapon it's beginning of a complete ban.

[SexyLexieJames]

While the specific solution this march is trying to promote may not be your specific cup of tea, the fact that large groups of people are getting out there to drive home the point that SOMETHING needs to be done is what matters. It represents that fact that no matter where people stand politically, those in charge need to find a way to keep us all safe. I am always aware that at any moment, I could go to the mall, or the movies, or just here at work, and be shot. I hate the thought that children, all the way from kindergarten to college, worry every day that they will be next to be murdered at school too.[/size]
Thank you Bob, for getting involved and speaking out proudly about it![/size]

[firefighter]

I joined the NRA in 1968 and I'm currently a Benefactor NRA member.  The NRA is one of the few organizations that promotes gun safety.  The NRA objects to more gun legislation because the gun grabbers are relentless and won't stop until guns are outlawed completely.  I possess gun permits in California, Nevada, Arizona, Florida and Utah so I may carry concealed handguns legally for the protection of my family because the police probably won't be there when a critical situation arises.  I have fired approximately 100,000 rounds in the last 60 of my 70 years and I have never shot anybody or committed a firearm related crime.

The cowards that initiate school shootings pick those specific locations because they know that armed guards or police are usually not present to protect the students.  More gun legislation isn't the answer because only law abiding citizens obey the law.  Our legislators need to focus on crime prevention which involves incarceration of more criminals to excessively unpleasant prisons, executing more ruthless murderers, deporting illegal aliens, and confining mentally disturbed violent people to institutions.  It's very difficult to ban guns for felons because they obtain firearms through the black market or steal them from citizens, military and police.  Computer program aided machinery allows novice gunsmiths to unlawfully manufacture their own guns too, and that technology would be nearly impossible to eradicate.  Firearms are illegal to be possessed by citizens in Mexico so only police, military, criminals and drug dealers are armed.

There have been several bombings in the last few years and bombs are definitely against the law, but the criminals manage to obtain and detonate them nonetheless.  When a drunk driver kills people on the highway, legislators don't propose banning alcohol because that's not the problem.  There are speed limits of usually 55 to 70 miles per hour on the highway but high performance cars are available that will attain 160 mph plus; however, legislators don't require automobile manufacturers to install governors because the product is again not the problem.  The problem is forcing people to respect and abide by the law and incarcerate or control the criminal element.

[Chicagobob]

I respect everyone's position - no matter what it is.  I do have to say though with over 30 years in the classroom I have never seen kids so determined to change things. It's really different this time. They are not going to back down and let this go away.


The one thing I'm truly afraid of is if WE don't change this, THEY will. And if they do, we probably are not going to like it. I think now is a chance to compromise and come to the table with these kids and work towards some harm reduction measures that would be beneficial for all.

[Mikey]

https://youtu.be/o7KtAseCNHk

Yeah, damn, that pesky media is always the problem. We don't need gun control, we need "Media Control", and we've got a guy in the White House wants it too.

[niceguy eddie]

Now all we need is sidewinder here.  :

I wish there was a no-politics rule here because of how heated and unpleasant the Fight Club section on the other board got, but anyway . . .
I want the same safety equipment to defend myself as the police have in the event the police are not there to defend me.  Remember, when seconds count, the police are at best minutes away.  Many police cars are equipped with AR-15s to deal with the same dangerous criminals that I will face if they ever break into my house.  If the police ever exit a car expecting to deal with someone with a firearms they do not rely on their sidearm but bring the AR-15.

If having to defend myself against a home invasion with multiple armed assailants, your .38 Special revolver will not cut it, Chicagobob.  People do not go flying away after hit by one shot as seen on TV.  Check with recent combat and police videos/reports.    You may be dealing with several people who need to be shot several times each.  A properly selected AR has more ballistic effect than a handgun round and gives you more rounds if you need them.

There are more AR-15s made and sold by more companies than any other longarm in the US.  There are at least 15 million in private hands.  It is the most popular gun in America.  Not to mention millions of other military style semiauto rifles.  How do you propose to take them away from all of the legal owners who have done nothing illegal with them and never will?

If you look at the Supreme Court's Heller Decision which affirmed that the Second Amendment was an individual right that applied to individual citizens to keep and bear arms for defensive purposes, take a look at pages 54-56.  It  suggests that the previous Miller decision protects "weapons in common use at the time." 

Well, we have over 15 million AR-15s in the country and they are the most popularly purchased longarm, and more versions of them are made by more gun companies than any other longarm.  That would definitely qualify for  "common use at the time."

If you look at some of the bills being proposed they seek the ban of all magazine fed semiautos.  This is just the first step in a long agenda of eliminating the right to own firearms.[/size]

[niceguy eddie]

One thing I think is a gross abuse is how many schools provided school buses to get the teenagers to various rallies. 

They are using taxpayer money and school property to pursue their own political agenda.I wonder what would happen if someone proposed allowing kids to take time off from school and provide school buses to go to a pro-NRA raley or a pro-Trump raley.

I certainly was horrified by the school shooting in Florida, but if you look at the big picture, it was a huge failure on many levels.

The perpetrator involved had publicly posted about doing so; the police had been to his house on over 2 dozen occasions, the school safety officer and several shrinks recommended in September 2016 that Cruz be involuntarily committed for a mental evaluation.

Had that happened his name would have been added to a list of people ineligible to buy a firearm when they did the instant background check at the gun store. 

Further, the school safety officer was derelict in his duty in not going in to act as soon as he realized that a shooting was going on.  He stayed outside.  So were the 4 Broward county deputies who later showed up.  Ironically, two Coral Springs SWAT officers were suspended for going in.  The established protocol for an active shooter is to go in and immediately engage them.  The whole command structure from the head of the Broward Sherriff's department on down is to blame for poor leadership and execution.[/size]

[niceguy eddie]

The one thing I'm truly afraid of is if WE don't change this, THEY will. And if they do, we probably are not going to like it. I think now is a chance to compromise and come to the table with these kids and work towards some harm reduction measures that would be beneficial for all.[/size]

History has shown that students have always liked finding a cause that they believe in, that they are passionate about, that they can join with other like-minded people and feel that they are a part of something bigger than themselves.  It provides a sense of significance, belonging, makes them feel important, etc.

But realize that there are many more people in the US who own some type of AR-15 or military style semiauto rifle than there are students marching.  We are talking about many millions of owners.  The AR-15 is the most popular type of longarm bought these days.  This is relevant when it comes to votes involved.  If you look at forums and social media and online groups that cater to gunowners, they are concerned and getting more politically involved by writing their representatives, organizing, contributing to the NRA, The Second Amendment Federation and Gunowners of America.

Chicagobob, you know those "monger's special rate" $400 parties that you hear about?  Well, I have personally donated enough to finance several of those to groups that protect my second amendment rights in the last year.  And I am only one of maybe 70 or 80 million people who own guns in the US.[/size]

[niceguy eddie]

By the way, I am having trouble controlling my font size.  I often write something in a Word document or on notepad and paste it. 

When that happens I invariably get a small unseeable font and have to go back in and highlight everything and change the font size.

I keep having to mess around with it until I get something reasonably viewable.

It comes out different when I type it directly, but I have found if I remove a space between paragraphs it suddenly makes the following lines a tiny font size.  I guess that is a quirk of the board.

Don't for a second take that as a criticism of the board or an expectation of having more technical support or having Rachel or anyone donate their free time to try to fix it.

I take it to be a bug of the board or the software that I just have to work around.

[Mikey]

So Eddy, you feel you need to be able to take on a SWAT team to feel safe at home? Where do you live? As to your contributions I wouldn't bother, as it seems the NRA is well supported by the gun manufacturers, from what I've seen of their website and NRATV. I'm sure this post will earn me a few more -'s, but hey I never worry about being popular, or following the crowd.

[niceguy eddie]

So Eddy, you feel you need to be able to take on a SWAT team to feel safe at home? Where do you live? As to your contributions I wouldn't bother, as it seems the NRA is well supported by the gun manufacturers, from what I've seen of their website and NRATV. I'm sure this post will earn me a few more -'s, but hey I never worry about being popular, or following the crowd.

No Mikey.  I don't feel the need to take on a SWAT team but I like having the odds in my favor if I should face a group of determined home invaders.  If you read what I said, AR-15s are carried in many police cars by regular departments as "patrol rifles."

Even if it wasn't for home defense, I like the AR because it is fun to shoot, accurate, and probably the most ergonomic longarm on the market.  People shoot various competitions and matches with them.  The AR-15 is modular which means the owner user can easily swap out things like pistol grips, handguards, easily mount optics on it and add a variety of accessories without having to go to a gunsmith.  They are easy to take apart for detailed cleaning and put back together--infininitely more so than M1 rifles or the semiauto civilian version of the M-14 known as the M1A.  The AR is my favorite longarm.  It is also the favorite of Millions of Americans who own them.  They are the most popularly sold longarm in America for a reason.

The NRA is supported by members--over 5 million members who vote in elections--and the membership and the contributions are growing phenomenally with recent events.  It is a grass roots organization--the largest one in the US and it is growing exponentially with recent events.[/size]

[Chicagobob]

Now all we need is sidewinder here.  :

I wish there was a no-politics rule here because of how heated and unpleasant the Fight Club section on the other board got, but anyway . . .
I want the same safety equipment to defend myself as the police have in the event the police are not there to defend me.  Remember, when seconds count, the police are at best minutes away.  Many police cars are equipped with AR-15s to deal with the same dangerous criminals that I will face if they ever break into my house.  If the police ever exit a car expecting to deal with someone with a firearms they do not rely on their sidearm but bring the AR-15.

If having to defend myself against a home invasion with multiple armed assailants, your .38 Special revolver will not cut it, Chicagobob.  People do not go flying away after hit by one shot as seen on TV.  Check with recent combat and police videos/reports.    You may be dealing with several people who need to be shot several times each.  A properly selected AR has more ballistic effect than a handgun round and gives you more rounds if you need them.

There are more AR-15s made and sold by more companies than any other longarm in the US.  There are at least 15 million in private hands.  It is the most popular gun in America.  Not to mention millions of other military style semiauto rifles.  How do you propose to take them away from all of the legal owners who have done nothing illegal with them and never will?

If you look at the Supreme Court's Heller Decision which affirmed that the Second Amendment was an individual right that applied to individual citizens to keep and bear arms for defensive purposes, take a look at pages 54-56.  It  suggests that the previous Miller decision protects "weapons in common use at the time." 

Well, we have over 15 million AR-15s in the country and they are the most popularly purchased longarm, and more versions of them are made by more gun companies than any other longarm.  That would definitely qualify for  "common use at the time."

If you look at some of the bills being proposed they seek the ban of all magazine fed semiautos.  This is just the first step in a long agenda of eliminating the right to own firearms.[/size]

So you're saying that my little 38 Special is not effective against an AR-15? So you're saying that the AR-15 is a deadly war machine and my 38 Special isn't?  So you're saying by the time I pulled the trigger, somebody with an AR-15 is going to fire off 20 shots killing me 20 times over?  I AGREE!  That's the point! 

[Chicagobob]

Bob do you really think the wakos will stop at the semi auto rifle. Next you will want handguns. Then shotguns and on and on until there is nothing left.

And if South Vietnam falls to communism, all Asian countries will fall like dominos @@  Sorry, I couldn't resist. 


All these kids really want is reasonable harm reduction measures.  I listen to these kids talk in the cafeteria.  Most are totally respectful of America's 2nd Amendment.  As a gun owner myself, I think what they are asking for is not unreasonable and is not an attack on our right to bear arms.


As I said before, I don't think we have a choice. 800,000 people marching in DC alone.  800 other marches in cities around the country. And 100's more around the world.  People have had enough and are out to change things. It will be an interesting election this Fall.