BrothelLife

That is asking who won a war? The real answer is nobody wins.

BTW: Not saying wars are not necessary and should never be fought.  Just saying neither side ever comes out a winner.[/size]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/af ... d=msedgdhp

I agree 100%.  Nobody ever wins.  Maybe John had it right... I can only Imagine!

https://youtu.be/rAn-AWXtHv0

Every gun that is made, every warship that is launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, and those who are cold and not clothed.

Dwight D Eisenhower

SIDEWINDER link wrote: Every gun that is made, every warship that is launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, and those who are cold and not clothed.

Dwight D Eisenhower

Quoted out of context.  Eisenhower seems to forget that we won WWII where he served as a 5 star general.  If we used the money we spent to win the war to feed and cloth people instead, we would be speaking German and Japanese. Eventually we would not have to worry about feeding or clothing Jews because the Germans would have killed them all. 

Do you know what percentage of the gross domestic product (then referred to as gross national product) we spent on defense under Eisenhower?  It was about 10%.  Do you know what percent we spend now?  3.7%.  Eisenhower sure stole a lot of money from the hungry over the 8 years he was president compared to what we spend now.

I don't think Eisenhower forgot anything. Being a war general, he just realized the cost of war.

I  think you forgot what I said:

"BTW: Not saying wars are not necessary and should never be fought.  Just saying neither side ever comes out a winner."
[/size]

Today is the 80th anniversary of Charles Lindburgh's America First speech at Madison Square Garden on why we shouldn't support the war against Hitler.


https://www.encyclopedia.com/history/di ... -lindbergh

For those who think there are winners and losers in war, take a look at this.[/size]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzc1zJk-48c&t=30s

SIDEWINDER link wrote:
That is asking who won a war? The real answer is nobody wins.

BTW: Not saying wars are not necessary and should never be fought.  Just saying neither side ever comes out a winner.[/size]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/af ... d=msedgdhp

: : :

And here is what happens if you don't fight a war or let evil countries go unchallenged for too long:

niceguy eddie link wrote: And here is what happens if you don't fight a war or let evil countries go unchallenged for too long:

Liberals like Sidewinder just hope that evil does not exist and they refuse to fight so evil will win.

"Just saying neither side ever comes out a winner."

I could actually agree with Sidewinder because being a "winner" is subjective.  In contemporary history we've had Slobodan Milosevic and Saddam Hussein, both of which were attempting genocide.  Others have pointed out the Jews and Poles that were saved in WWII.  In all cases the U.S.-involved side stopped the mass murderers, so in that sense we "won" the war.

But the losing side (and the people they'd been attacking) also had their countries bombed and innocent civilians were killed.  Even though the killing was stopped, the existing deaths and property destruction continued so in that sense they "lost".  The U.S.-involved side also had casualties and incurred the cost of war without a material gain, so in that sense they also "lost".

So I'm saying I can see a moral good and even necessity in going to war, but depending on the subjective term still agree that there's no "winners".  (All those hours sleeping through Philosophy 101 finally came in handy!)

Wildfire link wrote: Liberals like Sidewinder just hope that evil does not exist and they refuse to fight so evil will win.

If only it were so easy.

Liberals like Sidewinder just hope that evil does not exist and they refuse to fight so evil will win.

The only point I was making is during war, no one comes out a winner.

BTW: I would much rather be the way I am being able to see the tragedy of war instead of glorifying it while others die.[/size]

To say no one comes out a winner is really misleading. Heck, Most of the US economic boom of the 50's and 60's was a direct benefit of the rest of the world being destroyed by war with outside of Hawaii, we had the benefit of a factory system built up for war now repurposed.

Heck, your healthcare system, Kaiser Permanente doesn't exist without WWII and the ship building in California. When the war industry ended, the healthcare that was created was continued as a not for profit.

So you think those with loved ones who were lost or injured during the war come out winners? Or those  having lasting affects from the war for years?  Some wars such as WW2 must be fought but the loses are great for both sides.  There are no winners.  [/size]

It is true, there are no winners. I think for me it is the reason for the war that is important.

Repelling an invader of a foreign country committing mass genocide seems just but might cause a larger conflict.

Certainly defending your own country is permissible. But what if your country is in the wrong.

You have to consider the countries involved. Countries like the US have a lot at stake around the globe.

Also I think if you dedicate your whole being into either liberal or conservative and taking up their ideologies like a religion is ridiculous. I'm not following any parties around waving their flag because I don't need to be told how to think.

Rachel Varga
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Exactly, I do not belong to any party either and have voted for Democrats, Republicans and independents.  I just wish more Republicans and Democrats would quit marching lock step with their party and start thinking for themselves.  I also wish conservatives would stop calling anyone a liberal who disagrees with them on certain issues. I also wish democrats would stop calling anyone a conservative who does not agree with them.  On many issues, I'm actually more conservative then conservatives and Vice Versa. I do know that wars have to be fought but also know there are no winners when you take everything into account.  [/size]